SE 2.0 crashing constantly

[Mr Turner]

I installed SE 2.0 on a VT5 machine and it is crashing SE 2.0 constantly. You can work a few minutes then BAM.KAPOW.CRASH! VT5 seems to run OK. Anyone with VT5 experiencing these problems?

When you scrub through a project it crashes. (new or old projects)

I started a new project from scratch. completely fresh. Still crashing.

I tried cleaning the temp directories. still crashing.

Most of my footage is full HD from XDCAMs. I strip out the MP4s and edit. I have a bunch of stock SD RTV files and tried building new project and it still keeps crashing.

This happened on several old projects....I load an old project and it loads fine but within the project files are missing info or in a couple of instances added audio files mysteriously. They were PCM files from the final AVI render of the project. Must of been temp leftovers so I cleaned up as much as I could....then reloaded same file and other wierd stuff happened. It didn't recognize a few files, DVEs and audio clips....when you tried to delete them it crashed. When you tried to replace them with the same file they became TEClips....then crashed. yikes ????

I have a decent machine with 4g ram and dual quad processors. My VT card is fairly new, when VT5 came out I built this machine and traded my old VT card in for upgrade card. VT5 under heavy use, did OK on it.

I uninstalled and reinstalled completely. No change.

Any ideas or help?

:help:

[wvp]

No real idea's here but I say to try a new project and one type of video or audio. See if you can make it crash. Then add another type of clip. Object is to narrow down what is causing it.

Read some other posts here - I read of a couple bugs in v2 that John already has fixes for.

Yet another reason I would like to be able to download the software (without a reg code) and see if it works on my systems before buying.
Hopefully John will post results on this once he gets a chance to help you.

[Walk Worthy]

I have found that defragging markedly improves how SE runs....

[UnCommonGrafx]

32bit machine with 4 gigs is the problem. Reduce it to 3 and it should work without problem.

I don't have 2.0 but this was a known issue with 1.x. For that matter, it's a known issue with other software, as well.

[John Perkins]

So far (knock on wood) SE2 has seemed stable, the fixes aren't for crashing issues, but rather incompatibility with old projects.

I didn't see where it was said that Mr. Turners system is 32bit, but if that's the case it could potentially cause a problem. The hack used to access more RAM on 32bit isn't kind to most applications that attempt to use it.

I'm amazed that 32bit OS's still exist really, I haven't used one for more than compatibility testing in several years.

wvp has the diagnostic routine nailed. Make the simplest project that will cause the problem, note whether it is one particular type of clip and what actions were needed. That is the first thing we will ever ask you for.

I'm particularly interested in crashes from this new release (tech support doesn't have a list of known issues yet, it's just too new), so please contact me directly and I'll try to help narrow down the problem.

Thanks,

[radams]

Actually, with VT 4 and lower, the whole system can have issues even with 3 gigs...drop it down to 2 gigs...if you are running XP.

Only go above 2 gigs if you are running a 64 bit OS.

Also what Graphics Card are you running...what driver?

Please send your system's specifications.
Are you running any additional software/utilities?

If you are running Norton's virus....dump it for something else...
Also do not use Nvidia's controls...there were some issues with that.

Something else to help...

Delete all the Newtek info files...and then let them regenerate...there could be something corupted in them.

Also you could have a non compliant codec installed...

The more info you can provide here the better to find a resolution.

Cheers,

[UnCommonGrafx]

John,
That might be the tell for why he is having the issue.
We can't know, though, until he comes back with a response. Speculation is about all that could be expected not given more information.

I'm amazed that 32bit OS's still exist really, I haven't used one for more than compatibility testing in several years.

[Mr Turner]

Sorry for the delay. I was on a shoot all day. The system is not 32 bit. I do have a Nivdia card. I am not sure how to eliminate that with the monitors I have in place. Any tips here would be helpful.

The system is XP Pro w/ service pack 3.
Intel x5450s @ 3 Gig
with 2 Gig of Ram.

I had DVS direct build it. I am not a huge tech geek. I quoted from my other machine, sorry. I am a shooter/Producer that has been using toasters since mid 90s. Still have an Amiga 4000. :)

I tried a clean project loaded VO - wav files...fine

Loaded graphics logos and some bed files - pngs and jpgs....fine

Loaded Video Clips which are MP4s full HD shot with XD CAMs.( i strip out the mp4s from the mxf files) I loaded about 150 clips from two different scratch files. Bam it started crashing. When you grab the timeline bar and scrub quickly to a spot seems to be an issue. It seems to be happening randomly. I tried different clips at different reboots. Seems to be the pattern with the timeline bar. It also has problems with cutting then moving, as well.

That leads me to believe it may be the Nividia. Does that make since?

I do not use Norton. I do protect this machine because I have it on a network and it has to access weather and data information on a daily basis but I use Trend Micro.

Thanks for advice or help.

[John Perkins]

XP Pro? That's a 32bit OS.

The hardware sounds 64bit capable, the OS doesn't. That's unfortunately the limiting factor we were taking about.

If you get an nvidia driver that is even remotely recent it should be no problem. We actively block their problem DLL so that you don't have to tweak the system anymore. (we're a lot more proactive on this type of thing in SE2)

I'm confused on "extracting the mp4" I've never done this so I can't vouch for whether we read them.

Can't you just load the XDCam MXF's directly in?

If this is the problem, I want one of these mp4 files bad.

Thanks,

[Mr Turner]

Something else to help...

Delete all the Newtek info files...and then let them regenerate...there could be something corupted in them.

Also you could have a non compliant codec installed...

Cheers,

Ray...Can I just delete the Newtek Info files? I am not sure how to do that.... sorry for being dumb here. Can I just do that through windows or is there some trick way to get it done....I did the Clean Temporary Files thing in every location icluding stock music libraries and external storage drives.

My machine has 4 x 1 Terabyte SATAs video drive. I have a hundred projects on it.

As far as codecs...I only have VT5 on this machine. It is used for TV production only. I do have the Quicktime on it that SE 2 installed. Would it have had an issue with VT5 Quicktime codecs?

I never uninstalled VT5 which seems to be next if no one has a solution. Maybe a uninstall would help???

If I uninstall what would be the best course for reinstall?

VT5 then 5.2patches then SE 2 ....or?

[John Perkins]

I wouldn't reinstall, especially if VT5 is still acting normal.

Not a dumb question at all, it's not obvious.

The easiest way to remove those NewTek Info folders is using the Clean Temporary files option.

This will clean the current folder and all folders that it contains.

It won't work if any clips are in use, so make sure you are in a new empty project.

You won't see the icons rebuilding until you have moved to a different folder and return to this one though.

[Mr Turner]

John, If you search the BPAV file from windows. *.mp4 you get them all and don't have to wade through the mxfs. Especially if you shoot a couple of hundred clips.

I can ftp a small one if you really need one but if you have a mxf try it. Just use windows search on the folder.

Make since?

[Mr Turner]

I cleaned all of the Temp directories from a new project.

I have not been through my VT5 completely to see if it is corrupt. I did use it for voice over capture and CG a bunch yesterday and had no trouble.

[John Perkins]

But the mp4's are thumbnails, are they not? I'm not even sure what the resolution of those is.

I've only got the mxf's. We don't own an XDCam, users have sent us the MXF's only.

Yes, I would love to get one or more.

[John Perkins]

We don't expect SE2 to hurt VT5, it is intended to install on VT5 systems.

[Mr Turner]

John, I did have some missing DLL messaging on my VT5 but then it would run after the messaging error. I will be pro active about that problem and get back to you.

Should I look at a different OS to solve this problem? I want my SE 2 bad. Now that I loaded a few working projects I can't go back. Several clients expect results soon. Any help would be appreciated.

[UnCommonGrafx]

Based on what you've said, it sounds exactly as I stated above. However, it sounds like John and crew have a way around needing to "set the switch".

Yeah, your os is 32bit.

[John Perkins]

I'm not convinced it's the OS, to me this MP4 thing seems like the most likely culprit.

Can you try one of the MXF's and some other easy file like a DV avi, RTV, etc to see if it only happens with the MP4?

Thanks,

[Mr Turner]

John, Here is a link to OneHub which I uploaded two 3 sec full res MP4 clips for you to check out.

http://turner.hubs.onehub.com/winterparktv18/pages/files

Let me know if you cannot utilize the link. I may need to send you an invite through your email.

Some history.....I bought one of the first XDCAMs. The early mxfs were recognized by the software and I found that you could strip out the MP4 and use it as a stand alone. I have built all my projects (maybe 200 hundred) with these full res MP4s they worked in VT5 just fine. Then 5.2 would not recognize them. So I uninstalled 5.2.

Thanks for your help on this.

[John Perkins]

I think you'll need to email me a login at jperkins@newtek.com

The HDCam mxf's are one of our new 2.0 supported formats, so they should work fine.

Not having tested the mp4's they worry me.

Thanks,

[Mr Turner]

To get the MP4s...you have to pull them from the the camera chip and bypass the making of a MXF files. Search the actual BPAV folder that holds all files that the camera has written to that chip....do not create the MXFs. I just went back and made some MXFs. It is a pain by comparison. It is so much easier to strip out the MP4. I can be editing in seconds with MP4s. MXFs are a step much like encoding linear tape to a computer....or converting formats for FCP. Seems wrong.

Can anyone tell me the benefit of an MXF file?

There is probably some use for MXFs. To make one you have to go through an extra step. I am not into extra steps and one reason I have supported Newtek all of these years. Maybe I am wrong but seems to me if I can go straight to the file and use it... I will be faster and at the bank more often.


:hey:

[John Perkins]

This a Sony EX1 or EX3 isn't it?!

It finally clicked about mp4, VT5.2, the whole thing.

I thought you meant the XDCam cameras that natively record as MXF files.

That's a whole different beast.

BTW, you can play them in VT5.2, you just have to rename the clip to .avi. (long story, VT5.3 will fix this)


Yes, you absolutely should be able to drop EX clips directly into an SE2 project without any problem. We have several users editing from cards in the field even.

I have a few folders of them on my notebook and they do seem to scrub without an issue for me. (I just checked)

I doubt this is your issue now, I know too many daily users, including beta testers that have this camera, plus I test with them a lot. A mistake here would have been spotted.

Also, that annoying BPAV folder layout pretty much prompted a feature in SE2.

Right click on a BPAV folder. Select "Locate Camera Files". It will create shortcuts to all the clips they buried in there. Who the heck came up with that stupid layout?

Ok, the good news is I doubt it's the clips, the bad news is that I'm still not sure what your problem is :(

Back to the too much RAM angle?

Can you remove 2GB and see if it makes any difference or do you feel comfortable with that?

Thanks,

[Mr Turner]

I have been testing the studio machine. Sorry I just got back to office PC to check. I only have 2 gig of RAM on the edit machine. I miss quoted early in the the thread.

The machine has dual quad core 3 gig chipset with 2 gig of RAM. The OS is XP Pro with Service Pak 3 Someone confirmed that it is 32 bit. I didn't build it. I bought it from DVS Direct with a new VT Card in 2008 when VT5 came out. I traded in my old VT Card.

I made a whole batch of MXFs and started a new project fresh. It crashed with MXFs just like it did with the MP4s.

I broke out a new project with RTVs only. It chopped fine and didn't bonk for quite awhile, actually. I was jamming it hard and fast. l added some MP3 music, wav files and some overlay graphics and finally got it to crash after 30 minutes of working pretty hard....chopping, scrubbing, speed variables, DVEs etc etc.

Think it is the OS?

If so, what OS should I run on this machine?

[John Perkins]

I just tested your clips too with good results.

[John Perkins]

It wouldn't be the fault of the OS, assuming that there is nothing actually broken in the installation and if it's running well otherwise, I'd hate to jump to that conclusion.

Ok, so we've discounted too much RAM and file type.

Can you put the clips on another drive and test? (don't bother converting, just use the mp4 files)

Were the RTV's also on the same physical drive?

Can you update your video card drivers to the latest version?

Do you know how to burn an iso file to CD?
http://www.memtest.org/download/4.00/memtest86+-4.00.iso.zip

If so, boot from a CD made from the iso in the link I just posted and let it run a memory test overnight.

This will test for memory errors. If you have an error or if the memory test has crashed or restarted, you have hardware problems.

Thanks,

[Mr Turner]

I have 4 x 1 Terabyte SATA drives on this machine stripped together. and used for video only. Seperate OS Drive. I keep it defragged but have not run any tests on it.

I brought the RTV files over from storage for the testing. All clips were on the same drive. I will run the memory test and get back to you tomorrow.

I am on a shoot all day but will be back late afternoon. Thanks for your time and energy.

[John Perkins]

Even the system drive would be fast enough for the mp4 test.

It's no problem, I really want to get to the bottom of this so that if it is a bug on our part we can fix it.

Thanks,

[Mr Turner]

OK....so I assume that the ISO Memory Test boot disc is cyclical. It was still running fine after 7 hours. message "Completed - No errors - Press ESC" at the bottom.

I updated my GE FORCE 7600 driver. It was outdated but still no luck. I started a new project with a hundred clips with nothing but cuts only MP4s. No other files. Made it full screen so you can see the entire project and when you scrub back and forth a few times it will crash the software.

I don't have time to test the system drive yet but will get on it when I get back this afternoon. Out the door.

INSTALL QUESTION: Could this install pattern cause a problem?

I installed 5.2 on this machine when it came out then uninstalled VT5 completely after MP4s wouldn't work with 5.2 and.....

Reinstalled VT5 completely.

I installed SE 2 on this machine then I reinstalled 5.2 so I could use the newer virtual sets.

Project problems and crashing made me think the SE 2 install was bad so I uninstalled SE 2 completely then reinstalled SE 2. During the re-Install...It ask if I wanted to repair Quicktime. I said yes and continued install with out any problems.

Just thinking through possibilities.....

[KiloWatkins]

Look in VT Prefs at your Module Save setting. Change to something like 10-15 minutes. This seems to have stabilized a Dream Machine with 4gigOram @ XP32bit. Check your Cache folder for VT. I use the same drive, but have VT cache in a folder and SE in another folder on my Render to Raid.

HTHelps

[Mr Turner]

I was out shooting yesterday and all morning. Just back to running the editing tests.
I copied some MP4s and MXFs onto the system C: drive not the video drive. I loaded about a dozen clips each and started a new project with SE 2. It scrubbed through the clips pretty easily. A little hitchy but was doing the job, I added a few MP3 files and a couple of JPGs then SE 2 crashed while playing at the end of a MP4 clip that had a small JPG Logo graphic as an Overlay.

I am not sure what to make of that? Once restarted it crashes the project when scrubbing through in random places.

NVidia is updated. Memory test ran fine.

Could this be the install? I can clean the machine and start fresh with VT5through patches to SE2. What do you think?

[John Perkins]

I'm not one to say reinstall, I find that the suggestion is overused and rarely helps.

I'm a big fan of trying to narrow down the problem though.

Are you seeing any patterns emerging at all?

Thanks,

[Mr Turner]

I have been running it through the ringer all afternoon. Literally crashing every couple of minutes. I found that a session controller is crashing in the back ground. I tried a couple of Windows restarts and found that program message repeatedly after SE 2 crashing. I am not sure what that means?

I pulled up an old project. I had to get out for a client. I started the project in VT5 and it seemed to cross over to SE 2 fine. I edited a bit and it actually worked until I tried to delete a MP3 audio file and it crashed. It won't let me delete the clip at all. I finally just moved it out of the way. If you move the timeline close to that clip it crashes. I brought a new copy of same clip in and inserted it on the bad clip and the clip started working. Another slice of same clip in a different place crashed it. These were MP3 stock music clips.

Any ideas from any of this? I have been trying to narrow it down. This project is all AVIs made from VT Virtual Set. It has some music, WAV voice over and a bunch of graphics some overlays. Nothing fancy. Cuts and Cross Fades only. Still crashing.

I know you said you thought the OS should be fine but maybe that is an issue here. XP Pro 32 bit is what DVS Direct built in this machine and installed with my VT5. VT seems to be running fine. I did some graphics and Virtual Set work with it today no troubles, no crashes.

[Mr Turner]

I would have to say at this point it seems that SE 2 is not a 32 bit friendly product even though it says it will run on XP. I guess it should have read maybe on xp64. I was so hopeful and now very bummed. I have tried everything I can think of...at this point I will have to dump it and recreate weeks of work.

Has anyone installed it on a XPpro 32 bit system with success?

:confused:

[KiloWatkins]

You have 4 1TB drives stripped? Not going to work and took a Dealer 2 weeks to find, XP will only accept 2TB stripped sets. This is the same machine where VT was locking and freezing, had him extend the Module Save time from every minute to 10-30min. whatever. You might watch at boot to see if boot.ini says 3GB, or add it yourself, there is a txt or doc in SE main directory, not sure if it is in SE2.0 main directory or not. Configuration of XP Run > services.msc should also be a consideration, not just MSCONFIG. Have you tried starting VT, then SE2.0, and seperated the Cache, even to put them on different drives? Reading your post, split up that 4TB raid.

Luv, Minnihaha, Manitou Springs

[Scott Bates]

I would have to say at this point it seems that SE 2 is not a 32 bit friendly product even though it says it will run on XP. I guess it should have read maybe on xp64. I was so hopeful and now very bummed. I have tried everything I can think of...at this point I will have to dump it and recreate weeks of work.

Has anyone installed it on a XPpro 32 bit system with success?Yes, SpeedEDIT 2.0 is running on my XP Pro SP3 32bit VT[5] system - 4 x 500GB Sata drives striped for video, quad-core at 3.0MHz, 2GB RAM and an older VT Card (which shouldn't make a difference).

[Mr Turner]

So get this....I kept having these crash issues and the pattern seemed to be happening with audio files more than video. I woke in the middle of the night and decided to encode the MP3s and voice parts to WAV files and I just completed a 60 sec ad without a crash. The project was simple Full Res HD MP4s with cross fades and PNG overlays. Same project had been crashing repeatedly.

John if you are still eyeing this thread, what do you make of that?

I did change my module save setting to 15 minutes in VT 5 but I am running SE 2 without VT running. Not sure if they interact or not?

I have 4 x 1 Tera byte SATA video drive. I didn't change the video drive. I have a dual - quad core at 3 gig. I didn't change the caches at all.

:D

[SBowie]

There are different sorts of MP3s, and related problems are occasionally reported. I expect John may ask you to submit a sample with a Bug Report to Fogbugz, to help resolve the issue in this specific instance.

Really glad you made some progress!

[John Perkins]

Yes, please get me a file that causes the problem.

If it's too big to email and you need ftp space, email me at jperkins@newtek.com and I'll get one set up for you.

Thanks,

[Mr Turner]

I am not totally sure that file was the culprit but I will continue to investigate and update this thread if I find out anything solid. Those were the only things I did different at that moment in time.

The MP3 was a standard 128k audio file. The VoiceOver parts were already WAV files created with VT5 capture in the studio. They were chopped into a bunch of parts and I made one WAV file of them.

John I will send you the stock music clip in a couple of minutes to your email...it is about 3-4 meg max. Let me know if you find anything as I have a huge file of stock music encoded at this bit rate.

[wvp]

... decided to encode the MP3s and voice parts to WAV files and I just completed a 60 sec ad without a crash.
We have had issues with mp3's in SE1. Quite annoying and really slows the edit process down. Was hoping SE2 would have solved this.
Glad we have waited to spend any money upgrading our 5 licenses.

[John Perkins]

I received the file and the debugging output you sent, thanks!

I see that you have almost as many blacklisted codecs as I do, you've got quite a handful.

I still suspect that some codec I haven't seen is causing the problem. As soon as we track it down, I will add this to the blacklist.

I will continue working with you directly, but updating this thread for informational purposes.

Thanks,

[wvp]

Curious John what you mean by "blacklisted codecs". When you add these codecs to the blacklist I assume you are 'disabling' their use in SE.
Would this 'codec' be a 'bad' mp3 codec or one that causes conflict with the mp3 codec?

[John Perkins]

It can be either.

For example, one version (the most common one) of the Nero MP4 splitter tries to accept anything and generally fails at it.

The FFDShow audio codec takes over MP3 in most cases and fails at seeking correctly, usually timing out.

So when we see these codecs about to be tested for use, we prevent it.

In some cases, simply trying to see if the codec fits can cause a crash, so we have to do it before it is even tested.

[wvp]

Interesting John. It makes me wonder why SpeedEdit couldn't just use its own mp3 codec (or one it includes) and provide a way to enable 3rd party codecs.
I suppose it would be more difficult, but also ensure a more stable program.

[KiloWatkins]

.mp3's have just flooded the world, and makes it very hard for more than just SE to unpack and conform on the timeline. Most .mp3's are only 8bit, so SE will try and conform them to 16bit. iToons doesn't help this. Audio is so much easier to play/record/convert, and part of being an editor is doing the work when an issue comes up. Newtek does make their own mp3 in a way Jeff, it is just not a render.mp3. I avoid them, convert them, re-record them, instead of just tossing an mp3 on a timeline.

POV

[lcress]

I avoid them, convert them, re-record them, instead of just tossing an mp3 on a timeline.

POV

Agreed. I always convert to wav before bringing in audio. Another thing to avoid is even having an mp3 in the same directory as the wav file. I kept crashing SE 1.55 every time I browsed to a folder that even contained an mp3.

Haven't upgraded to 2.0 yet so I don't know if that problem has been resolved. I know John has been working on it.

[wvp]

So (arguably) the most popular audio format in the world is not fully compatible with SE.
I wonder how other systems fair with MP3s?

[John Perkins]

Wow, overstate much? ;)

A biggest source of problems that people had with mp3's have been sorted out, that was FFDShows fault.

In this case, there are signs pointing to mp3 possibly being the problem, but we still don't know for certain. The file itself isn't causing me any problems thus far.

I use mp3's a lot and I don't see problems with them in SE1 without FFDShow or SE2 at all.

There may be a case here, but we just don't know yet and when we find it, it will be fixed.

I'm going to send wvp a teddy bear or something to cheer him up ;)

[wvp]

Perhaps I should clarify - Kilo indicated the need to convert the widely popular MP3 to wav in order to use it in SE.
I'm not tech-savvy enough to understand why "the worlds most popular audio format" (my words) could be so popular yet so difficult to work with.
Do all editing systems have these issues with MP3s or are these issues specific to the way SE does the cool things it does?
Can you send the teddy bear before Valentines -it i'll save me getting a present :) :santa: :D :I_Love_Ne

[KiloWatkins]

So how do those AC3.mp3's @ 8bit work for you Jeff? LOL When I burn, myDvd does the AC3 for me, and when I copy the audio from the DVD back to SE, make a clone and see all 4Chnls bounce, well please post when you get an .mp3 to do that.

Somewhere I read that a flat line was from the file being made from chnl 3&4, I hope SE2.x will make 4chnl AC3's. I use 24bit audio cards, and 6.1 speaker system.