First SpeedEdit2 impressions

[tomtm]

I must say, from Version 1.5 to 2.0 that's a really great advance.

all is much snappier and more "live".. and the new stretch function (slomo)
is very very good, the image interpolation is just amazing.
and finally, support for image sequence is usabale, while I miss a function
to collaps the image sequence in the view of the filebin.
the new codec is also very good and also works with 64 bit apps!!!

Image quality is amazing!!!

the only thing I would wish is a button to switch the order hierarchy in the timeline.... why is the most on top the most on ground in the timeline?
I mean, if people find this useful go for it. But I usually cut with Premiere
or FCP..... a swap button please


Greets Tom

[radams]

I told you guys that SE 2 was cool ;)

Hey Tomtm what part of Switzerland are you?

I used to live near Bern.

Cheers,

[ixlor8]

Image quality is amazing!!!



Let's say you are running SE2 on a quad core system with Win Xp.

What was changed in the program to gain amazing quality over 1.5.5?

Very interested.

Thanks

[tomtm]

Hi again,

after testing more the SE2 I just say it has some really great
functionality.

-slomo set to linear is amazingly good
-SE Codec also works also with 64 bit apps, like Fusion (hidden feature)
-FrameServer function is still very useful
-all over performance is just insane....


I just wish the magic "swap timeline" button to swap the timeline hierachy.
Newtek, this would you bring 1000 more sold licenses...


Greets Tom

[joseburgos]

The Black Magic output works perfectly so far. It plays back and smooth and crisp doing nothing but enabling the Black Magic output. I have it installed on my system that also has the VT card and I can switch back and forth to see how it will look in HD or SD simply by changing the output to VT and then Black Magic again.

I have the Intensity card and I does not work this well with Premiere. To use in Premiere, I have to choose a Black Magic project profile or else only the source monitor is output through the card. Then I have to choose my RAID as the scratch disk for video preview. If I do not, the video plays and stops.

SE 2 and Black Magic Intensity out put just works and it is great viewing HD resolution out of my video monitor :)

Take care,

[SBowie]

I just wish the magic "swap timeline" button to swap the timeline hierachy.How about we just put in a button that flips all the text labels and icons, and you rotate your monitor by 180º? ;)

[wvp]

How is the performance if you put several dozen hi-rez jpgs on the timeline and start doing a move on them? We find this painfully slow in 1.55 but no issue in another program.

[SBowie]

How is the performance if you put several dozen hi-rez jpgs on the timeline and start doing a move on them? We find this painfully slow in 1.55 but no issue in another program.How high res, please?

[wvp]

How high res, please?

I see file sizes 2MB - 4MB a lot these days with some even higher. Resolution in the 2k X 3k range.
We have to run them through Breeze Browser and basically compress the file size to use in SE. Then if quality is an issue, replace these with the originals and render. Note: making the image smaller dimensionally does not work because putting the hi-rez images back screws up any movements done.

[lcress]

A 1.5 to 2K image will choke eventually in 1.55. Funny thing, the problem doesn't seem consistent. I can have several hi rez images on the timeline, do moves and everything seems smooth. Then come back the next day, same project, same system and when I go back to change the size or modify the move they start to choke. I've tried numerous restarts of both SE and the computer and that doesn't necessarily fix the problem.

Really hoping SE2 addresses this.

[SBowie]

Resolution in the 2k X 3k range.Yeah, it's the resolution I was interested in, thanks. At a given res, more compression involves lower disk access requirements, but higher cpu demands. But I was mainly interested because in these days when 10-12 megapixel cams start below $100, I think we'll need to find ways to cope, and maybe not all that far down the road.

I'll try to test some similar images, but someone else might beat me to it.

[radams]

Yeah, it's the resolution I was interested in, thanks. At a given res, more compression involves lower disk access requirements, but higher cpu demands. But I was mainly interested because in these days when 10-12 megapixel cams start below $100, I think we'll need to find ways to cope, and maybe not all that far down the road.

I'll try to test some similar images, but someone else might beat me to it.

Hi Steve, and all.

This isn't just a matter of stills anymore either...with RED and other affordable Digital Cinema Cameras....and the evolving DSLR's.

We need to be able to work with 2K to 6K stills and materials these days.
Even with stills or scans...think about how the Discovery and History Channels create documentaries, even commercials these days...using stills to zoom in and out of...elements on multiple planes with pans and truck shots, etc...this can be done with NLE's today...SE needs to be able to handle this without loss of image quality...or bogging down while editing or doing moves.

Heck even marketing and business presentations use these same methods.
I tried to use SE 1.5 to create a major presentation for my last company...I had to go to Mirage to do it...due to SE blurred the images when rendered...and didn't have smooth motion.

Cheers,

[tomtm]

... just add a swap timeline button, please.... ;-)

[Paul Lara]

... just add a swap timeline button, please.... ;-)

Be sure to put this in the SE Feature Requests forum. :thumbsup:

[Tony R]

I dont see why the order of the timeline makes a difference as long as you know that the bottom layer is on top. I like it that way because you put your bottom layer up there, and then add more as you go along. If you do it the other way, how do you know how far to go down before you add your lowest track? Of course, you could insert tracks if you fill up top to bottom but the way it is now, it works fine.

[wvp]

Yeah, it's the resolution I was interested in, thanks. At a given res, more compression involves lower disk access requirements, but higher cpu demands. But I was mainly interested because in these days when 10-12 megapixel cams start below $100, I think we'll need to find ways to cope, and maybe not all that far down the road.

I'll try to test some similar images, but someone else might beat me to it.

I imagine it has to do with how much compression is used like you said because the issue seems more about the file size than the picture size.

[SBowie]

I imagine it has to do with how much compression is used like you said because the issue seems more about the file size than the picture size.Well, actually in a given situation it could be either. The compression basically makes it slower to read, can interfere with realtime playback.

Often of more concern, though, is the fact that in order to work with the images on the timeline, SE has to not only take the time to decompress them, it has to allocate the memory they take after decompression. It took a couple of chugs of Murphy's law to make it possible to work with 1920x1080. That's a 'paltry' two mega pixels per frame. Now we're facing a scenario where we're asking it to handle 5-6 times that for every high-megapixel image dropped into the project. This is different than compositing software, which can basically deal with a frame at a time and only at render time. Scary ...

[lcress]

Maybe I missed it . . . . but still haven't heard whether SE 2.0 addresses the large image file bog down we've been discussing.

Has anyone with 2.0 tried doing moves on hi rez images yet?

[dweinkauf]

On both a 1080i and a 2048x1556 timeline, I placed a 4096x3112 targa image (as an overlay) over a 2048x1556 JPEG image. I zoomed, panned, and rotated both images without anything bogging down.

[SBowie]

Encouraging, Dave - maybe a dozen of them in a row in an HD project, see how that holds up.

[tomtm]

I dont see why the order of the timeline makes a difference as long as you know that the bottom layer is on top. I like it that way because you put your bottom layer up there, and then add more as you go along. If you do it the other way, how do you know how far to go down before you add your lowest track? Of course, you could insert tracks if you fill up top to bottom but the way it is now, it works fine.

Hi,

I would say that some people like how it is and some other would like this magic button. If you come from another NLE with opposite stacking, so I am sure you would dislike to work with SE, it's like you would work with inverse layered Photoshop... could you, would you?
By the way, the box called Overlay does also say OVER-LAY... it's not UNDER-LAY .... ;-)

I just fight for this button, you won't need it, that's ok.

Greets Tom

[dweinkauf]

posted by Steve Bowie...
Encouraging, Dave - maybe a dozen of them in a row in an HD project, see how that holds up.

OK, as an experiment, I decided to see how far this could go with 24 HD clips and stills set up in 12 segments.

First, here's my technology ...
ASUS G71 laptop
Core 2 quad
Q900 @ 2.00 Ghz
6 GB ram
XP-64, SP 2
SE 2.0

Here's how everything was set up...

Timeline = 2048 x 1556 resolution

Layer 1 (background) = twelve segments alternating between (6) 3264x2448 JPEG stills and (6) Panasonic 1920x1080 clips. I put dissolves between each segment and fades at the beginning and end of the layer.

Layer 2 (sound) = sound for the Panasonic clips

Layers 3 + 4 = (12) overlapping 4096x3112 Targa-32 stills set for overlay. Each of these stills had some sort of movement (pan, tilt, rotation on all axis, fades, zooms, size changes). These were set up so at certain times in each segment two of the stills overlapped the background layer.

Layer 5 = a large title with edge colors set to overlay.

During each of the twelve segments, you could see three video layers and hear one sound layer.

I got through the editing and setup of all the clip and still movements in six segments before anything bogged down. Even then, I was able to keep going without much of a problem.

When completed, I let the background render finish (about a minute) and played the project back. It played pretty well except for a couple of places where there were very complicated movements and overlays. On the whole, though, not bad!

I then rendered out an AVI of the project with a resolution of 2048x1556 and it played back as smooth as silk - no glitches.

SE is awesome!

Dave

[SBowie]

Sweet, thanks a lot for going to the trouble, Dave!

[blueisland]

Does anyone know how the chroma key is with se2. Up to now chroma keying has been dreadful. I'd love to just use se instead of 3rd party applications.

Sounds like se2 is a winner though. Can't wait to buy it.

[SBowie]

The keyer has not been updated in SE2. I agree it has fallen behind some of our other keying tech. Hopefully it won't be a long wait.

[wvp]

Thanks for the insight Dave.
At least I know that with a 'monster' machine it should work better.

[evexon]

How can NewTek have such a wonderful keyer in LiveMatte and still not get it into SpeedEdit after all this time?

Unbelievable.

The keyer has not been updated in SE2. I agree it has fallen behind some of our other keying tech. Hopefully it won't be a long wait.

[SBowie]

How can NewTek have such a wonderful keyer in LiveMatte and still not get it into SpeedEdit after all this time?

Unbelievable.I don't think it's a situation that can be a direct drop-in, but I agree it's a matter that should not be put off.

[kylegentz]

I just wish the magic "swap timeline" button to swap the timeline hierachy.
Newtek, this would you bring 1000 more sold licenses...


Greets Tom

I second this motion!

[Tony R]

Hi,

I would say that some people like how it is and some other would like this magic button. If you come from another NLE with opposite stacking, so I am sure you would dislike to work with SE, it's like you would work with inverse layered Photoshop... could you, would you?
By the way, the box called Overlay does also say OVER-LAY... it's not UNDER-LAY .... ;-)

I just fight for this button, you won't need it, that's ok.

Greets Tom

I did come from another NLE and it takes about one hour to get used to it and becomes second nature. I have no problem with it if they decide to go through with it but it has no effect on functionality. I would much rather NT spend their time on other things like Multicam than something as minute as this.

[Verlon]

If you raise your moniter a little higher so you are looking 'up' at the timeline and the top clip is further away, it becomes instantly intuitive. :devil:

[cresshead]

Q. what's the upgrade price form 1.5 to 2.0?

edit: pricing
upgrade Price: $279.00

full new price $995.00


Q.does the output to youtube now support 16:9 and HD features of youtube?

[ixlor8]

[QUOTE=cresshead;987560]Q.
full new price $995.00
QUOTE]

Premiere Pro CS4 New $704
Premiere Pro CS4 Upgrade $279

EDIUS 5 New $659
EDIUS 5 Upgrade $254

SpeedEdit 2 New $959
SpeedEdit 2 Upgrade $269

Vegas Pro 9 New $564

EDIUS Neo 2 New $165

Pinnacle Studio 14 New $129


With the new price of $959 how does Newtek plan on capturing additional customers? How do they continue with the small revenue stream of the upgrade path with this product segment?

This is not an negative post, but expressing my concern how SpeedEdit 2 is position in todays market.

[Shabazzy]

With the new price of $959 how does Newtek plan on capturing additional customers? How do they continue with the small revenue stream of the upgrade path with this product segment?

This is not an negative post, but expressing my concern how SpeedEdit 2 is position in todays market.

I have had similar concerns. Given what you get, I also wondered what NT were thinking when they set that price.

There's no doubt that the product is excellent at what it does, but feature-wise I've thought that it was lacking in some key areas.

I'm led to believe that SE2 is a marked improvement on SE1.x, but for $995 I would expect something light years ahead of the competition to justify that price. And SE2 certainly does not deliver that.

Makes me wonder if NT are trying to kill the product.

Shabazzy.

[Paul Lara]

No, NewTek is not trying to kill off SpeedEDIT.

[ixlor8]

I have had similar concerns. Given what you get, I also wondered what NT were thinking when they set that price.

There's no doubt that the product is excellent at what it does, but feature-wise I've thought that it was lacking in some key areas.

I'm led to believe that SE2 is a marked improvement on SE1.x, but for $995 I would expect something light years ahead of the competition to justify that price. And SE2 certainly does not deliver that.

Makes me wonder if NT are trying to kill the product.

Shabazzy.

I just remember back to 1993 when I purchase Speed Razor and all the required hardware. DVMaster and all the special Targa Boards.

Speed Razor is now gone, I liked the product and support was great. The big guys just crushed them.

I just wish that SE2 would have a simple "Burn to Disc" function. Montage template Tool Shed plug in's.

What is on the SpeedEdit new feature road map for the future?

[radams]

For those looking at SE and the costs involved...

Remember that NT also has costs...much of them due to licensing fees to other companies to allow them use codecs, and other parts of SE.

These are costs that are going to be passed on to the users...now add in the costs for programming, marketing, etc...

NT is also trying to make a few cents in the process.

Now there have been some very nice improvements to SE...Thanks John, Andrew and team.

So I would suggest checking it out...It is still one of the best cutup editors in the world...and there have been some nice improvements...like Sub projects with a control tree, better image sequence support, Black Magic Design hardware support, works with Windows 7, etc.

Cheers,

[Shabazzy]

I don't think anyone is intimating that NT are trying to 'rip anyone off'. We all know that they're in the business of doing business and sometimes hard choices have to be made. Ultimately, the bottom line is what it's all about and I for one respect that.

But as an end user, I'm not in the NT business loop, so I won't know how market influences affect NT's business and therefore their decision making. So I have to look at it from a consumer stand point which boils down to a price to value ratio. I.e, for what I get, is it worth the money? Can I do the same thing for cheaper?

Fortunately, I already have SE1.x, so for me to upgrade to SE2 doesn't really make the $995 price an issue, but if I didn't have it, I would seriously have to look at how it fits in with the competition that is similarly specced and priced.

And from what I've seen, they make me question why they set the price so high. I'm sure they have a very good reason, but as I said, I'm not in the NT business loop.

Shabazzy

[donx]

It sure impresses my clients when they ask how much the software costs and I say..."A thousand dollars".
....I could be editing with Nero for 80 bucks but not as nicely. :thumbsup:

[lcress]

I just remember back to 1993 when I purchase Speed Razor and all the required hardware. DVMaster and all the special Targa Boards.

Speed Razor is now gone, I liked the product and support was great. The big guys just crushed them.



I remember the heady days of SpeedRazor as well. For our production company we bought 4 seats of SR to replace our outgoing linear edit gear. Comparatively, the price was dirt cheap.

The point that SpeedEdit is at now reminds me of the early days of the original Toaster when LW was bundled with it as an add on. Eventually, users screamed enough that NT made LW a standalone product. The rest is history. LW is a professional product for professionals.

NT's current premiere product (no pun intended) is the Tricaster with SE bundled to it. Instead of waiting for everyone to complain "Why do I have to buy a Tricaster just to get SpeedEdit?" they made it a standalone product right away. I'm glad they did.

When LW came out, it was like no other piece of software. It had its own feel and was intuitive. Likewise, SE seems to be in the same vein - independent of the Adobe mindset and more like sitting at a video switcher when it comes to layering. The interface itself may have a way to go, but we're only at 2.0. When comparing a 2.0 package to Version 8 of some other package there's no question which one seems slicker and has more features.

If NT can get SE in the hands of bigger post houses just like they did with LW it might have a chance of becoming a competitor. To a post house, a realtime editing solution under $1k still looks attractive. To an end user/hobbyist its still a leap to spend an extra $200-$300 on a package that doesn't even have a demo version.

Just depends on what NT sees as its market. I'm not sure even they know for sure yet.

[jredmond108]

Well the question for me is it worth the $279 upgrade. From what I've read here, there has been nothing really compelling about it to spend that much money. It is an upgrade, but again I'm not reading or seeing much about how great it is.

For now, I keeping my money in my pocket. James

[radams]

Hi jredmond108,

There are several reasons to update to SE 2.0.

1) Sub Projects work like clips now...Oh yeah!!!
2) VST plugin support
3) Black Magic Design Hardware support
4) improved sequencial still support
5) additional codec support including H.264, Sony XDCam, etc.
6) improved image quality and speed
7) improved slowmo
8) Works with Windows 7 and 64 bit
9) Multi core fix and support

And that's just to name a few...now add to that bug fixes the help with stability, and throughput with CG, no more freezing or lockups with directories, no more lag on play/stop/pause...and 100+ more fixes.

Along with that additional fixes and patches that are coming.

That to me is worth the $$$. It will pay for itself in productivity with the first or second job.

Cheers,

[cholo]

It will pay for itself when you get to go home early for a solid 8 hour sleep at the end of the day ;)

[lcress]

There are several reasons to update to SE 2.0.

1) Sub Projects work like clips now...Oh yeah!!!



Hey Ray,

Can you key a sub project over another layer as an overlay in SE 2?

[Dufusyte]

now add to that bug fixes the help with stability, and throughput with CG, no more freezing or lockups with directories, no more lag on play/stop/pause...and 100+ more fixes
We are expecting the bug fixes to be released as a final patch for SpeedEdit 1.x because it would be cruel and unusual not to release a final patch for SE 1.x.

And we know Newtek is a great company that takes care of its customers, especially the 1.x customers.

[Shabazzy]

We are expecting the bug fixes to be released as a final patch for SpeedEdit 1.x because it would be cruel and unusual not to release a final patch for SE 1.x.

And we know Newtek is a great company that takes care of its customers, especially the 1.x customers.

Hmm.

The fact that they didn't do that straight after the release of SE2 makes you think if NT have ANY intention of doing it.

I don't know if it's usual for that to wait this long, but to wait near enough 2 months for a final patch when they were done ages ago, seems odd to me.

I guess they have their reasons.

Shabazzy

[radams]

We are expecting the bug fixes to be released as a final patch for SpeedEdit 1.x because it would be cruel and unusual not to release a final patch for SE 1.x.

And we know Newtek is a great company that takes care of its customers, especially the 1.x customers.

I can not speak for NT on this...but most other companies say "to get the fixes upgrade..."

That includes, AVID, Apple, Adobe, Autodesk, etc.

I can understand that you don't want to upgrade...but the reality is that SE2 has the fixes along with additional features.

Try purchasing previous versions of software from other companies.

My suggestion is get SE2...there are so many helpful reasons for it...it will pay for itself with the first project...both with time saving features and fixes.

You've made yourself clear of what you want and expect from NT.
I would suggest talking with them directly rather than post here.

You won't get the resolution you want that way.
Be prepared that the resolution is to upgrade to SE2.

Cheers,

[Dufusyte]

most other companies say "to get the fixes upgrade..."
Regarding other companies, most of the other software I use for production has received 10 times the amount of (free) fixes and updates during the past two years than SpeedEdit 1.x has.

That is why I am sure Newtek is waiting to release one big free fix at the end of this long wait. Goodness knows they wouldn't just abandon their 1.x customers. I'm shocked - shocked - at the very suggestion.