Surfaces and Object Saves

[spardacus]

If I can model a object and use it multiple ways in LW, why am I constantly having to jump back into Modeler to assure I save my model's surface characteristics?

If I don't save the surface in Modeler, the model comes back into my scene with old surfaces.

I am slowly now able to move around - dare I say confidently? - in LW after a couple of week's study, I know there is still MUCH to be revreled to me. However, I must say the surface and object management is VERY confusing to me.

Is there no way to "save all" edited objects, without having to remember which of the dozens of bojects I may have tinkered with in the last 5 minutes, and then go back and forth to Modeler to save updates?

Any suggestions or mind altering trick to think the way these two environmtns share their object and surface data?

thank you ... yes, thank you again.

:-/

i am spardacus

[mlinde]

This is a sneaky issue to get used to. In Layout, when you adjust a surface, you need to re-save the object. I am so bad at this I set up a keystroke shortcut to "Save All Objects" so that I save often. This will keep your changes between sessions in Layout, or from Layout to Modeler. Here's what I did:

1) In Layout (Lightwave), press Option-F9. This brings up the "Configure Keys" window.
2) On the left pane, open the "Objects" selection.
3) Scroll down to "Save All Objects"
4) Assign a keystroke (I use CTRL-s)
5) Whenever you edit a surface in Layout, or save your scene, preface the saving with CTRL-s to save all objects.

You MUST save an object in Layout (Lightwave) if you edit the surface there. Surfaces are saved with objects, and Layout does not automatically save objects when you save the scene.

[spardacus]

mlinde ...
Great tip. I am off to program that shortcut in a moment.

First, another peculiarity. When I move into modeler from LW to edit an object, if I save the object with a new and different name, why wouldn't this break the link to my scene so as not to interfere with the current version of the object in that scene?

If I am constantly forced to update/save my versions of an oject's surfaces and forms, how will I ever leave my original alone and have only a scene specific version that loads with the scene specific parameters made only for that scene's usage of the object?

One last thing, how do you go about surface management? I have lost count on how many times I have had to reassign surfaces to their objects because the back and forth routine loses or confuses my object's surface with other or older suraces. And, though I assign all elements of an object the same surface, I can't seem to eliminate older and default surfaces from the objects surface panel?

Where do you surface? When do you surface? Do you use the presets to manage your surfaces?

thank you much ...
i am spardacus

[Jimzip]

Wow.. Complicated.

Well firstly, I'll just try to re-hash your questions into manageable bite-sized chunks..

1. How do I save an object that loads into Layout with surfaces different to the original.

2. How do I make sure any changes I make are saved and do not get changed during constant moves between LW and Modeler.


Answers:
1. Ok, there are two ways I know of that are quickest. I don't know any others.
The first, is to save another copy/revision of the object. Simple, and obvious I know. But what difference does it make if you aren't changing geometry?
Secondly, you can save the surfaces so you can assign the one you want to the object. In the surface editor, just click 'Save'.. straightforward.

2. Changes get updated via the Hub. But you knew that already. Of course, on older systems, the Hub becomes a lazy ar*e and decides to delay a bit. Make sure if you're in modeler, to press 'Synchronise Layout', near the layer buttons, and if you're in Layout, the best option would probably be the 'Save All Objects" like mlinde said.

Hope it helps, I'm sure you knew some or all of that, but just to make sure!

Jimzip :D

[Ge4-ce]

Few, that's a whole bunch to explain..

First things first..

LW has a very tense directory system. If no-one has told you this before, I will tell you now. For every project, you should set up following directory:

for example: project forrest

Macintosh HD/project forrest/

Scenes/
Objects/
Surfaces/
Images/

Then when you press "o" on your keyboard you can set your content directory. Here you pick Project forrest.

Now, LW will now save all objects, surfaces, images and scenes in the oppropiete folders. This is also the only way to transport a project to another computer without having problems with lost files, images,....

Now about your question: If you rename an object, you will not replace the current object, but you will place a new one in the same directory. Your original will keep the old name. If you want your new object in your scene, you have to select the old object in your scene, choose "replace" in your Items tab, and replace your old with your new object. Save your scene.

then, for the surfacing part:

I always arrange my surface in Modeler. Just give any surface that you make a different name.

example: Making a car

You make a chrome bumper. Select all the polygons that should be chrome and press "q".

Now you have a choice. name the surface "front bumper" or name it "chrome" that's up to you, but "front bumper" is far more easy to arrange, while with "chrome" you will end up with less surfaces because there will probably be more chrome parts on the car.

If you name all your parts, it is easy to arrange things because all the parts appear in surface editor. I also give every part a differtent color!!

TIP: Star surfacing with colorfull heavy colors (Pure red, blue, green, yellow, purple,...) add no gloss or reflection.. that part comes later..

Your car will look like circus clown, but you can easy see mistakes in your modeling because of the high contrast.

When your model is finished, go into layout and open Viper together with Surface editor.

Then reassign your surfaces to your parts! you can see realtime renders in your viper how it looks..

also, in surface editor you can use your RMB to copy surfaces to other parts.. if your front and back bumper is the same for example, you won't have to set up again your surface.. Or you can safe you surface by pressing "s" when your surface editor panel is open.

Then remember to choose 'SAVE ALL OBJECTS' from the menu or from the shortcut explained above

[Jimzip]

See, Ge4-ce did it better.

Jimzip :D

[Matt]

I've set my directory structure up like this:

LightWave
Objects
Project_1_lwo
Project_2_lwo
Project_3_lwo
Scenes
Project_1_lws
Project_2_lws
Project_3_lws
Images
Project_1_img
Project_2_img
Project_3_img
Framestore
Project_1_fms
Project_2_fms
Project_3_fms

Then set my content directory to LightWave, this way I don't have to keep changing my content directory for each project I work on.

Make sense to me anyway!

:)

[Matt]

also created an LScript to do a 'save all' . . .

// save_all.ls
// v1.0
// Saves the scene, then saves all objects
// Matt Gorner, 2003

@warnings

generic
{
SaveScene();
SaveAllObjects();
}

[spardacus]

Well ... I must say the responses here have been outstanding. I have some new time saving tricks that I look forward to adopting.

The surfaces hierarchy, however, in LW is really running me down. For the life of me I don't understand things that are happening ....

I just opened a scene - all looks fine - all objects have their repsective surfaces and my test renders look great.

I switch the surfaces panel over from object priority to listing by scene. No object is highlighted, and I touch one of the surfaces to do a global change to a widespread paint color. Before I change any parameter of that surface ... some of my objects mysteriously change their surface !! How can this be?

Also, I have objects that still have junk surface id's ... leftover Default, or old surfaces no longer used by any poly in the object.

I go into Modeler, select all polys, click the desired surface name, save the object - but still the old surface names will not go away!! Why shouldn't I expect bogus surface names to disappear from the surface listing if they are no longer used?

I can't delete the surfaces, I have tried pasting the desired parameters from my desired surface onto the undesired surface, and renaming the old surface to the new name - hoping they'll merge ... no luck.

I am totally baffled by the surface management in LW.

I feel I am withdrawing into a fetal position and may not be able to come out of the corner for fear of surface dimentia!

8-\

[Matt]

you can edit surfaces locally to each object, or globally for the whole scene.

imagine for a second you had two objects in a scene with the same surface name given to some polys, say 'main_body_colour'.

if those objects were totally different items in the scene, say a car and a lampost you would want to edit locally because the surfaces would different.

now imagine the objects had a surface called 'stainless_steel' you _could_ edit by scene in effect editing all surfaces called 'stainless_steel' globally across all objects.

however when you do that all the surfaces become 'one' so you would 'lose' changes as they are all made to be the same.

---

the reason you have surfaces names 'default' etc. still hanging about should be because something is still using it, if nothing is and you're absolutely sure, try quitting and loading the scene again.

[spardacus]

Matt ... and all who have patiently contributed to enlightening me ... thank you - thank you very much.

I have just discovered one element I had totally forgotten about - though toby or mlinde or someone earlier reminded me ... the "q" (Change Surface) is a magical little key stroke that allows one to change the surface and then, once saved, the object forgets the superfluous surface "clingers".

Why wouldn't this capability be more "drag and drop" or "highlight and choose" right from the surface list? I'm sure there is some deeper meaning for going to a separate keystroke and popup window for surface assignment that is beyond my novice understanding ... I hope to one day see the light.

I love all the power of LW - compared to the lesser environments I have used in the past - but selecting so many key strokes, dropping tools and touching neutral areas to deselect ... whew, it's behaviour to get used to.

thanks to you all ...
i am spardacus