OT: OSX network achilles heel

[Johnny]

I suspect I'm not the only one who's experienced this...take two OSX macs connected by ethernet...one Mac has a volume of the other mounted. if the mounted mac becomes unavailable to the network for some reason, the Mac that was connected to it has a nervous freakin' breakdown...

Major lollipop time in the Finder, and in other apps, extreme sluggishness, all resolvable only by restarting — often force-rebooting that Mac...

To me this seems, erm...DUMB that the OS that brags that if one app quits the other programs are unaffected would be able to have its legs knocked out from under it by a network burp!

J

[Ge4-ce]

Yeah, I agree on that one.. but hey.. once you know it.. you can avoid it.. I have reported this problem to Apple.. Actually, If you wait long enough, it will resolve.. but it takes a heck of a long time.. I often made that mistake with my powerbook.. shutting it down, and then plugging out the network cable to put the computer in my bag.. just a few seconds early.. takes most of times 10 minutes to shut down then..

only solution at this moment.. unmount all your networkdrives..

[Johnny]

yeah, you can avoid it...an ounce of prevention, etc.

but what in the case where a company is using Xserve servers...this would seem to be a situation in which that kind of thing is a deal-breaker.

J

[Ge4-ce]

I donnow.. maybe MacOS X server has a better solution to it..

I hate the bug.. and it will affect networking, but I don't do that that much..

[Ge4-ce]

besides.. it only appears when mounting a volume. There are more programms that give you access to a disk without mounting it..

It becomes a problem when you want to keep those 1000 disks mounted, from the 1000 monkys writing big budget movies on Microsoft word, running on pc's..

(the monkey thing is not my idea.. I just can't find anymore who wrote it..)

[skippy]

Originally posted by Ge4-ce
besides.. it only appears when mounting a volume. There are more programms that give you access to a disk without mounting it..


really? which programs can do that?

s

[mlinde]

Originally posted by Johnny
but what in the case where a company is using Xserve servers...this would seem to be a situation in which that kind of thing is a deal-breaker.
IMHO, if you work at a company that has is running network servers, those servers are probably running with at least a battery backup UPS if not more extensive power protection, so the XServe wouldn't just go down in a power outage.

I do remember the good old days though, where if you went to shut down a computer that had active shares, you were alerted, and the shares were disconnected before you shut down. And, those computers on the other end actually were notified that the shared disk was no longer available, and away they went.

[Ge4-ce]

Originally posted by skippy
really? which programs can do that?

s

I donnow.. I'm not a network expert.. But I can imagine depending on the protocol, you can access disks via a network without mounting them.. Think of ftp, even http..

I guess there will be others.. and maybe it's not the same, but when you set-up things right.. it is possible..

[Beamtracer]

Johnny... are your machines connected via an ethernet hub, or just a cross-over cable?

I have Macs connected via a hub and don't seem to experience this.

[Amadeus0]

If you try to contact a webserver, and it's down what happens?

It's the same thing on a (local) network.

You send out a request, the machine replies. If the machine doesn't reply, then another request is sent out (after so much time), and again if nothing happens then the machine send out ANOTHER request. If nothing happens, then the machine registers a "timeout", and you get control of said application back.

Network applications aren't written 'well' most of the time (i.e. if it doesn't get a response it waits a time, WHILE holding onto the machine/user Interface.) In fact TCP/IP isn't very efficent, or quick when dealing with direct connect-type networks.

Someone suggested using ftp to log on to the other machine. That's a good idea. In fact SSH is even better, and you can remotely access the machine without worry of outside hacking that ftp and telnet allow.

By the way don't go thinking that this problem is only limited to OSX. OSX isn't THAT SPECIAL... :-)

[Johnny]

Originally posted by Beamtracer
Johnny... are your machines connected via an ethernet hub, or just a cross-over cable?

I have Macs connected via a hub and don't seem to experience this.

Hi, Beam;

I'm using a 4-port ethernet hub. Two main things precipitate the problem in my set-up..maybe in others':

1. Sleeping the iBook, then trying to open a volume or folder of the iBook's from my G4 (sometimes I forget, or the iBook just goes to sleep)

2. Some problem on the iBook causing beachball frenzy will cause the G4 to also go haywire. I've noticed much more beachball time since upgrading to 10.2.6.

I'm no programmer here, but it almost seems like the writers of OSX neglected to write in some code that lets a machine carry on and let go of a network connection which is either having problems, or has been broken.

J

[Johnny]

Originally posted by Ge4-ce
I donnow.. I'm not a network expert.. But I can imagine depending on the protocol, you can access disks via a network without mounting them.. Think of ftp, even http..

could it be ssh you're thinking about? I never got what the point of that was..maybe this IS the point?

J

[Ge4-ce]

Could be That SSH is what I mean.. I really arn't specialised in networking.. Amadeus0 said that FTP is a good solution, and yes even SSH is better.. but I don't know how to activate it or whatever.. I'v just seen it in my 'filesharing' settings.. I can put in off or on.. that's it..

smb also suffers from that problem (in OSX as far as I know) I hooked up a pc to a Mac, and mounted the PC disk on the Mac. The pc hanges more than it should be, and is restarted.. Then the Mac keeps on looking for it.. (beachball)

[Beamtracer]

I wonder why I don't have this problem. I've got G4s connected to an ethernet hub, all machines running OS 10.2.4.

I can put one to sleep and it doesn't cause any problems.

[Johnny]

Originally posted by Beamtracer
I wonder why I don't have this problem. I've got G4s connected to an ethernet hub, all machines running OS 10.2.4.


I bet that your running 10.2.4 has something to do with it.

J

[eblu]

i ummm.... run 10.2.7

there i said it ok?
I do remember terrible crippling knockouts, when a server suddenly disappeared, but I haven't seen that kind of problem since before 10.2

now, I'm not saying that the situation is good. 10.2.7 takes far too long to resolve network issues, especially when compared to the other OS, but I did notice a much better response than say a springer spaniel would give if it fell into 10 feet of fast moving freezing water in a crack in the ice.