instant ik in lw8..."cool" or "toy"

[cresshead]

hi
there's a thread going on over at discreet.com about the release of max 6 being a bit boring and lacking any new cutting edge features..as a max AND lightwave user i jumped in and said that for me lw8 in comparison to max 6 look like a exciting prospect with the likes of the instant ik and bone dynamics to which some people replied that such things should be taken with a handful of salt as they are just demos and not production proven as yet..
i've seen features in max demo's look brill only to find that in real production they fall apart so i know where they are coming from...

so just wondering if people think that the new ik in lightwave will totally replace how we rig characters or will we still be using the likes of the setup machine and ACS4 as well as custom rigging when lightwave 8 ships?

i'm crossing my fingers for the "cool" side of stuff!

steve g:D

[EyesClosed]

I don't see why the instant ik and bone dynamics won't replace the old ways (unless Newtek makes them half-baked). Plus, it's not like these features haven't been in some other programs for years, so Newtek should know that it'll be successful.

[UnCommonGrafx]

Double post...
Sorry. Can't seem to delete this one.

[UnCommonGrafx]

Until it's out everything is speculation. :D So here goes:
I think that LW8 is going to be rather interesting as they have brought on some rather ingenious programmers for the next generation.

I have orthopedics; I've seen the particle stuff by the gent from Japan; Deuce is savvy enough to pull the team together. These things make me quite confident that we'll see even more people join the ranks of the "I use LW" club.

I agree with them on 'taking it with a grain of salt' as it was demoware. But my take on that is to expect MUCH MORE from NewTek than what was shown.

Even toys make great tools in the right hands. :rolleyes: I do believe lw8 will be very toy-like: fun to use, easy to use and great for anyone new to 3D with ambition and drive.

Back to test renders,

[Lamont]

I think it's great. I can use it for background characters, quickly, and I can spend more detail on the foreground characters with the "instant IK". Since I know how to rig in Lightwave, I don't see a problem with it.

The only thing I can see that is bad is if someone uses it as a crutch. But if you are an animator, I doubt you'd use that. It's cool for people who need to get characters moving without worry.

[KillMe]

what is this instant ik your talking about - is it some sort of preset ik systems for characters or is it just a select afew bones tell it to have ik and bang all nulls etc nicely placed etc for you?

[cresshead]

instant ik is the things that were demo'd for lw8..maybe it wasn't called instant ik but that's what happened!....add bones to character via skelegons then pres a button and hey presto you have ik'd up the character!..instantly!...

looked real good to me

steve g:D

[KillMe]

hmm i love the sound of it already =)

[hrgiger]

So, I already knew we had instant IK in 8 which is good news. But do we have instant IK/FK blending? Now that would be something.

[dablan]

Don't pass judgement until you try it :)

And also, what's wrong with getting work done with a cool toy? :)
Especially if it's really functional!

[melchior_]

Is it possible to do reverse foot or five point shoulder with the new ik system? They don't use nulls in instaik, right?

[Rory_L]

Melchior, tell me about five point shoulder if you would! I doubt I`ll be allowed to use the rig in game development, but it could be useful for my personal projects.

Thanks,

R

[hrgiger]

Instant IK seems for the most part a toy since IK is really easy already to setup, it really seems like it's only going to save you a minute or two. I mean, it doesn't take long to specify a terminator bone, point to a goal and specify which bones are controlled by IK.
However, having said that, as Dan said, I haven't tried it out yet so I can't really knock it yet. I'm very curious to see the new character tools.

[dablan]

Here's the thing, IMHO about "toys"

Us computer/software geeks like toys. A "toy" gets you excited and enthusiastic - with that, you work better.

Think about it - how many times have you been working on a project and a tool just isn't working right, or your video card is sluggish - then, you upgarde. You're thrilled at the effectiveness of the new "toy" or tool. Could you have done your job without the upgrade? Probably - but now you can do your job faster and better - and what that leads to is more creativity, and more experimentation.

At least - this is how I am. With that said - I think LW8 will be great, and it'll be hard to use IK "the old way."

[hrgiger]

Hey, don't get me wrong Dan, I've nothing against toys. I'm certainly not trying to make an arguement against them.

Bring em on I say.

[dablan]

I'm with you!

Let's see it NewTek !

:)

[SplineGod]

Heres what I saw at Siggraph:
I wouldnt call it a toy at all. Its far more then just instant IK. I can tell you that the current IK system cannot do what this new system does. There are no IK Goals in the usual sense. Every joint automatically is IK/FK capable.
The new system allows you to turn IK on and off at will on every node while you animate. You can pin down down nodes on the fly to lock them in place. The IK is per channel and is very easy to set right there in place so you dont have to go into the motion panel to do it. Its all very powerful, quick and easy.
On top of all that you can add dynamics to bones as well and still go back and animate with IK/FK on top of that. From what I can tell theres much more it will do.
BTW this can be applied to ANY heirarchy, not just bones.
My rigging courseware will definately be updated to reflect the new features. :)

[Baloney Pony]

Originally posted by SplineGod
My rigging courseware will definately be updated to reflect the new features. :)

Darn! I was hoping you were going to update your courseware to reflect old and outdated features from the 4.0 days.

-Da Pony

[SplineGod]

Originally posted by hrgiger
Instant IK seems for the most part a toy since IK is really easy already to setup, it really seems like it's only going to save you a minute or two. I mean, it doesn't take long to specify a terminator bone, point to a goal and specify which bones are controlled by IK.
However, having said that, as Dan said, I haven't tried it out yet so I can't really knock it yet. I'm very curious to see the new character tools.
The instant part is just the basic level. Whats neat about it is that every joint is a "goal". The nodes instantly appear there and initially IK is on for every joint.
In a way its the opposite of the way its done now where IK is off for every joint and you have to then add goals, move them into position, turn on full time IK, goal strength, keep goal in place etc etc.
With this system you start with IK on for every joint and then right click on a joint and tell it to stay locked, whether the IK stops there etc etc.
Its much faster and more elegant then the current method. It wasnt that hard to sort of figure a few things out.
I was expecting it to have an interface like Motion Designer but it was a bit strange because it was the complete opposite. The menus just pop up at each joint and theyre very simple.
The same goes for the dynamics. You can go into each joint and set things like weight, springiness and a few other things right there in place rather then having to pop open a window and scroll down thru a list of objects in the heirarchy.
Think about this and then add ortho into the equation.
You can draw bones in layout and then set the joints where you want them to be, you can simply and easily adjust the pitch plane of each bone even if the bones are at wierd orientations to begin with. Mirroring and copying heirarchies and much more.
Just Ortho has really changed my workflow. Robert has it too as do a few others.
The current Ortho demoed at Siggraph was just the beginning and the same with the new IK system. Both of them together GREATLY improve the way rigging is done.
Think about how easy it will be to reuse rigs if the IK is just there and the ortho tools allow bones to easily be refitted into a new character.
BTW, I had the chance to do a quick test after turning on the IK for some bones. The nodes on each joint do appear in the graph editor and can be referenced by expressions and motion modifiers.
This is all very exciting stuff! :)

[dablan]

And there's even more to come.

These new toys are great tools that all LightWaver's will love.